Busting the Myths: The Truth About EVs with Quentin Willson
Welcome to another episode of Take EV. I'm Greg. And with me, I have Quentin Wilson, and we're gonna be talking about EVs and misinformation and whatever else we wanna do because this is my own podcast. So sit down, listen, and I hope you're gonna enjoy it. So, Quintin, welcome to Take Your TV.
Quentin Willson:Thank you very much.
Greg:2nd time around. Yeah. Yeah. You came back.
Quentin Willson:Yeah. It's good.
Greg:I wasn't that bad the first time then.
Quentin Willson:No. You weren't. You weren't. And here we are. And how how long ago was that?
Greg:Oh, I can't remember. We did it over video. So I
Quentin Willson:think it maybe a couple of years?
Greg:Yeah. It must have been 2 years.
Quentin Willson:And things have changed an awful lot.
Greg:They have. Yes. Yeah.
Quentin Willson:Yeah. Which is it is what we're gonna be talking about.
Greg:Yeah. I mean, I wanna mention I wanna give a shout out to Dan Caesar and Everything Electric Show, as it's now known, for letting me have a a room to in recording.
Quentin Willson:It's getting quite confusing, isn't it? All these different names, stop birdies, they have everything electric, you know, fully charged. And and I I can tell the listeners that we're we're we're we're working hard to make this simpler by having a new thing called EVUK, which is an umbrella organization which will take all this in. And everybody collaborates, all all the kind of carmakers and and and charge point operators, etcetera, to help both lobby government for for for for better policy and also just to to to do the kind of anti EV narrative stuff that is so prevalent and is affecting demand. It really is.
Greg:It does.
Quentin Willson:You can see that people are not as curious as they were when we were doing shows like this and talking about them 2 years ago. There was a kind of an excitement and a zeal, but people have made up their minds that they don't want EVs. This is mainstream consumers because of all the stuff they've read in the papers and heard it on right wing TV and news. And, you know, I I I'm often beating this particular drum, but I do think and you talk to carmakers and they say, you know, it really they come into the showroom and say, well, no, I've never had an EV. You know, they catch fire.
Quentin Willson:The batteries are, you know, replaced after 5 years. That car park fire in Luton that was caused by an EV. They wear out tires really quickly. No. I don't want an EV.
Quentin Willson:Yeah. And all this stuff is just not true, you know. And it it's been hugely and accurately and peer reviewed, you know, disproved that these things are not the case. You know, the the the fire in Luton was caused by a diesel Range Rover. We all know that.
Quentin Willson:There are pictures of it on the Internet. You know, tires, you talk to people with EVs, and they say, well, I can't I got you know, my my tires are still original at 45,000 miles, you know, which is more than I got from my ICE car. And, you know, I've got an EV with 250,000 miles on the original battery, and it's fine. And and all the data we're getting back now from billions of miles of EV journeys all over the world is showing us a picture that we didn't have, you know, 10 years ago or 5 years ago, but it's showing us a picture of reliability, dependability, you know, they're not catching fires. Combustion cars catch fire more regularly than EVs, much more regular than EVs.
Quentin Willson:We're not seeing, you know, advanced wear, deterioration, battery degradation. And and all the surveys you get from people, who have EVs say, you know, 90% to 95% satisfaction. So I say to you, look, how is this really well established narrative of EVs are no good, they they they catch fire, the batteries don't last, there is no infrastructure, I would never have 1, etcetera etcetera etcetera. How has that become so firmly embedded in society?
Greg:I wouldn't say I'm sick of this phrase, but, like, I I I kept on saying to people today because of because we've as you can imagine, we've had that discussion many times over. I'm sure you've you've had on the on the fair judge view stand as well. Right? I always say to people I can't remember the actual saying, but the, is it the lie goes around the world before the,
Quentin Willson:truth has put his boots on.
Greg:Yeah. Yeah. And I I we just wired naturally to be resistive to things that are dangerous. Right? Because as a as a human pack 10000 years ago, we would be, you know, afraid of new things.
Greg:And it's hard for us to resist warning. And it takes a lot to actually get us out of the, the sort of the, you know, the something's dangerous in a corner sort of state. And I think that's the problem. The that is exploited by usually right right wing media. I don't wanna point fingers, but, you know, they they know how to manipulate us, is what I'm trying to say.
Greg:And the you mentioned the EV UK thing that Dan kinda launched yesterday. That sounds like a very interesting platform to actually combat misinformation. Wasn't there, like, a rapid response part to it? A new part of it. Right?
Greg:Yeah. Can I just ask you, like, how do you how do you as a sort of person who's, you know, done media, how do you not get tired of of having to disprove things? And I mean, and the other thing I wanna say, like, on behalf of all the hippies and left wingers like myself, I'm happy that somebody like yourself appears on likes of GB News and, you know, the very right wing misinformation platforms, frankly, to just, like, talk to these people because we're just we're either afraid or we just we think, oh, they're nuts. I don't wanna talk to them.
Quentin Willson:Look. I'm a great believer that we we have to engage politely and graciously and show that we're not eco zealots and and and nutjobs. And and if it means talking to Jacob Reeselvog and Nigel Farage, who let let's say it for the record, are actually quite nice blokes when you talk to them. And we always have a laugh. And I like Nigel.
Quentin Willson:I've known him for years. And I like Jacob too. And to have this adversarial conflict on screen helps nobody. So I go on those shows and and we we have a laugh and I get my points across, and that's really really important. And why do I do it still after all these years?
Quentin Willson:Because it, you know, it's putting something back. It's really really important that we do this. And I'm in a position where, you know, I know a lot of stuff about cars, and and I've I've owned all these, you know, fantastic expensive supercars and things. But I've, you know, after, you know, telling people to buy supercars and and also, you know, doing a a fair fuel campaign for 10 years, I realized that the electric car, when I could do 300 miles in this this car and and thought, woah. This is this really is the future.
Quentin Willson:I thought, now I've got to I've got to help people understand how important to change this is. So that's why I changed from hydrocarbons to to electricity because it is you know, we need to do this. And and and and people like me are in this unique position that they say, you know, he's come from a dark side, you know. He he used to drive a Mercedes SLS. Yeah.
Quentin Willson:Sure. But, you know, it that doesn't preclude me from actually saying this Tesla Model 3 Performance is actually faster than my Mercedes SLS.
Greg:I mean, it's a fact.
Quentin Willson:Yeah. Yeah. Completely. And and why is it not okay for me to say that? So I think, you know, I'm not a lefty.
Quentin Willson:I'm not a a a tree hugger. Although I, you know, I'm I'm quite conscious about the environment, and I turn my kids off when they don't recycle their stuff. But look, the difference we can make to the air we breathe and our energy security and using renewable energy at low cost so everybody can have cheaper cheaper electricity or even free electricity. I think that's a really important societal goal, isn't it? And then people like me, if we can help make that transition happen and stop relying on oil and gas and and and and murderous regimes who all they wanna do is put the price up, then that has to be good for everybody.
Quentin Willson:So I make no apologies that I'm doing this. And if people think I'm a a lefty loon, okay, fine. I'm not, but I just believe that this is something that will benefit my kids, their kids, your kids, you know, and and and the country as a whole. And there was a a report recently from the CBI last week, I think, that said that if we don't do this, that is grasp this electrification, this energy transition, the best case is we will miss out on £16,000,000,000 of economic activity. And the worst case is we'll miss out on £39,000,000,000 worth of economic debt in this country.
Quentin Willson:So I I see all this as an opportunity. You know, green jobs have overtaken fossil fuel jobs in 2021. You know, for every one fossil fuel job, there are, I think, 2 to 3 green jobs being created, and they're highly paid and highly skilled jobs. So surely, you know, we should be, right, kinda pushing this, or am I just an idealist?
Greg:No. I I I I couldn't agree more, like which is why we're we're in the same room. Can I just ask you, like, what is your when when Labour took over quite a few months ago, one of the first articles that I read, I think it might have been of even on on for the electric newsletter or whatever, was that the with a stroke of a pen, they allowed, I can't remember how many, like, you know, couple 100 of solar farms and onshore wind turbines to be installed? And I read that, and I was like, this is madness. Like, the, tories were supposed to be or conservatives are supposed to be the party of, you know, business and stuff, and they just kept that at bay or kept didn't let that happen.
Greg:And like you say, that 1,000,000,000 of pounds not being spent and people not getting jobs. It's crazy to me.
Quentin Willson:It is crazy, and it's crazy to a lot of people. And, you know, we know the conservatives were being, you know, funded and bankrolled in by a lot of fossil fuel money. So there there was an agenda there quite quite clearly. And when when Sunak did his famous Rishi rollback of taking 2030 back to 2035, we knew that there was something going on that, you know, wasn't obvious on the surface. They would they were saying, yes.
Quentin Willson:Yes. We support electrification and all this this green industry, but actually, you know, we're doing policies which would completely slow it down. And I don't wanna be political on this podcast. No. I I just
Greg:I was just curious of of your opinion. Sorry.
Quentin Willson:But but I think it it it's worth saying that, you know, Labour, pre election, were talking so much about electric cars and so much about GB Energy and all this. And and since they were elected, people like me have been sitting, you know, straining our ears waiting for something to be said. Yeah. And it it hasn't been said. And I just think, come on.
Quentin Willson:Let's engage. Let's talk about all the the easy levers we can pull to make it easier and cheaper for people to access electric cars, and how we can kind of recreate this wonderful energy system where ultimately we can be off grid with our batteries and our solar on our houses where electricity is free. You know, let's let's let's work as a as a society to
Greg:do that. And and let me hear some policy. Let me, you know, hear some engagement from from from the the the cabinet so we can all help make this happen. Yeah. So going back to the electric vehicles UK and the you know, how how does that stack up with everything that's going on already fully charged, you know, the the fair charge campaign, EVA England, and, you know, where does that lie within the the grids if you're like I have to explain to people if there's any conflict of of interest or No.
Greg:There shouldn't be any conflict of interest at all.
Quentin Willson:I mean, we're all wanting the same outcomes, don't we? Which is more people driving more affordable electric cars and paying less for their energy. So if if we've made a mistake, it's that we have been too many different voices with too many different names, and consumers kinda get confused. The guy came up to me earlier on and said, no. Wait a minute.
Quentin Willson:Are you fully charged? Are you fair charged? Are you, you know, stop burning stuff? Who are you? And I think that that's a really interesting thing that we we haven't got this really, you know, umbrella identity to say that, you know, we are EV UK.
Quentin Willson:And if you want a question or if you want something to happen or if if we can help you, come to us. And I think there are lots of very, very laudable, very good organizations within the the EV sector. And I think we've all got to come together, and that includes the carmakers and the charge point operators and the energy suppliers, and just help make this happen as as one big, force is the wrong word, just big community of people who want the same thing, which is to to move it forward and to counter all that misinformation and all this, let's be honest, vested interests who don't want this to happen. I mean, we're being completely idealistic if we think that this is all kind of an organic process, all this negativity. Yeah.
Quentin Willson:It's divided up into the the the keyboard warriors who are making a career out of being anti EV.
Greg:Yeah. But they they just perpetuate whatever they heard from somebody else. Right?
Quentin Willson:Completely. But but they're making money out of it. You know, the YouTube algorithm is paying them
Greg:Oh, yeah.
Quentin Willson:Because they get all the clicks. So you've got them. Then you've got the the the the people who just amplify what they write again and again and again, which then goes across Facebook and Twitter and even LinkedIn now. And then you've got the the the vested interests who, you know, whose businesses are gonna be affected by this, and and that that's a broad, broad, broad group. You know?
Quentin Willson:And then at at the end of that chain, the most sinister is is the countries who don't want electrification, and we know who they are. And these are dark and malevolent actors. And if you put all those kind of people and and and see what they would be doing underneath the radar, and I think, you know, it is happening, then that's the reason why there is this huge anti EV, and the word here is torrent going on out there. And it it it's the the old order screaming that they don't want the change, and then it's it's people whose mindset and whose whose kind of political positioning doesn't like EVs or the people who drive them. And then there's the old people who just change, you know, the people who voted for Brexit and stuff like that.
Quentin Willson:So, you know, it's this big group of people who who aren't huge in numbers, but in terms of volume and visibility, they're quite quite large because you hear them on social media and you see it repeated in the papers and and and and across all these different channels. And the worry is that, consumers have been put off and but also policymakers hear this and they think, what's going on? Yeah. When it is an artificial noise and if you're out there as I have been today talking to people who have got EVs, they are just uniformly positive. And there was this little guy who said, well, is it obvious?
Quentin Willson:You know, they don't break down. They're clean. They've got 20 moving car parts up here compared to 2,000. You never have to service them. Why are people resisting?
Quentin Willson:You know? And you just think, yep. You you you summed it up there.
Greg:So the if we if we if I may, like, we were talking earlier about, like, preshow about the the events. And we've noticed that there's a decline in attendance to these shows. Like, they they're getting slightly smaller. Right? And I put up I put forward the theory that's that's just my own theory, that we've reached the people that, you know, were capable of of of thinking about it and critical thinking.
Greg:And now we have to reach different the demographic or different spectrum of people. Your point of view was that it's, you know, it's it is the misinformation. I think the truth probably lies somewhere in between. You're probably more right than I am because I'm just a, you know, podcaster. You've got, you know, a lot of experience talking to politicians and other people with different spectrum of views.
Greg:But what do you think can you can you reiterate your point and just, like, you know, explain to, to the the, the listeners what you think? And also, what can we do about it? And can the, the EV UK actually address that?
Quentin Willson:I think your instinct is is is is partly right that, you know, we we we've converted the people who are gonna convert. And how do we talk to the the undecideds that that there's floating voters? And I think we need we'd think very hard about that. I mean here we are we've got a really I'm looking out the window now and it's a it's a big old lump of cars and people and it it is it's it's it's busy. The halls are really busy but it's October and it's cold and and these things usually are held in summer.
Quentin Willson:So I would say the football is is slightly down. There's also a a lack of corporate sponsorship because we know, you know, there's a geopolitical and financial retraction going on, which has been started by China and, you know, people aren't buying big ticket purchases like, you know, electric cars. But I think, you you know, being able to talk not to an echo chamber, and this is what these things are, and talk to to a mainstream audience, we need to think about how we do that. I think that's really really important because while while while the community spirit and and the admiration for the technology here is is is wonderful, I want to talk to people who haven't ever driven electric car and who have, you know, gobbled up all the myths and everything and are, you know, standing ready to defend their position. I think the how we talk and communicate with them and how we persuade them that this isn't a threat, that it's a form of liberation, and they'll they'll never have cheaper driving in their in their lives than than running an electric car or more reliable.
Quentin Willson:That that's the message we need to get across. And I think, you know, we failed to get that cost of ownership message, and people won't change their behavior because of environmental reasons or even their quality reasons. Some will. But the the broad church of people will do it only because it benefits them in a financial way. So that's the message we have to get across.
Quentin Willson:We haven't we haven't done it. You know?
Greg:Yeah. That's true. I mean, it's very hard for somebody to notice that there's no c o c o two in the air. There are ways to do it. You can have an infrared camera and you can see things.
Greg:You can see a little bit of a mist, but it takes a bit of a scientific mind. It's not a naked eye type of thing. So we have to approach people, you know, through like business reasons or I mean, frankly, even if I wasn't, you know, kumbaya per sort of person myself, you know, vegetarian kumbaya sort of a guy, I still prefer running on electricity because it's simpler. And I can control it, and I can charge at home. Like, there's just so many benefits.
Greg:I'd
Quentin Willson:there are. And and look, I I think it's really important to say that EVs are not for everybody. They are people who will never drive 1 for a raft of reasons, belief systems. They they don't get on with tech. They they hate lid the liberal mindset, and they don't believe in climate change and all these other things.
Quentin Willson:And and I think that's fine. Look. Just get on with with your own lives and there'll be combustion cars to drive for years years years and nobody's gonna take those those from you. But if you are mildly curious and sitting on the fence, it's kind of incumbent upon you to find out what what this is all about. And and don't switch off and don't believe all the all the stuff you've you've read and listened to, because it it isn't true, most of it.
Quentin Willson:And look, you know, the grid isn't isn't perfect. We need more. We've got 70,000 charges and 13,000, you know, rapids, ultra rapids. We're we're doing really well in the UK in terms of charging and it's up 50% on last year and will be up probably at 50% next year, but we still need more. And we still need government to pull levers to make it more affordable and accessible for people to make the switch.
Quentin Willson:2nd hand EVs have come down in price significantly to the point where they're the same or sometimes even less than combustion cars. And, you know, if you're listening here and you're thinking about, should I get one? You will probably never have a chance to buy EVs as cheaply as you can now because people are gonna start looking and say and all the dealers say this to me. We can't believe that you can buy, you know, a Tesla Model 3 with maybe 50,000 miles for 15 and a half, 16 grand. That won't won't happen.
Quentin Willson:They'll be up a 20 Those
Greg:are gonna last. Yeah.
Quentin Willson:Yeah. Yeah. No. So, you know, the the don't say they're too expensive because they're not. They're the the second hand ones are really cheap.
Quentin Willson:When you got an 8 year battery warranty and a 100,000 miles with with with any EV, and then all the data we says that they're lasting 20 years batteries. So that there's no risk. So, you know, take a I I always say, look, talk to somebody who drives an EV. Don't listen to a journalist who writes for either a tabloid or a broadsheet who who has never driven an EV. And I mean, I'm sitting talking to you and looking at you, and I am this is absolutely true because there are some of them out there who don't even have a license, but are writing, you know, EV invective out there.
Greg:That's madness to me. Like It's There should be a lot. To Lino. Somebody should I know. Should pull them back and say, no.
Quentin Willson:Don't do this. You know? But then this is this is all social media, and this is all press and everything. And Yeah. You know, we can get into that, but let's not.
Quentin Willson:It it's a global phenomenon. But when it comes to this subject, which is electrification, then it means that, you know, people are missing out on jobs, people are missing out on cheaper energy, and that that's that's reprehensible if you're a journalist, and you are you are steering this ship in the wrong direction just because you get clicks.
Greg:Yeah. So on the subject of of EVs, you used to do, like, you know, recommendation for the the the cheap secondhand car. That's great. What would you recommend to people these days, if I may ask you? Like, do you have any opinions on on the on the ones on the market?
Greg:Yeah.
Quentin Willson:Look. I mean, so let's take a Kia e Niro for 2016, 2017, maybe 2,015, 40, 50,000 miles, it's about $12.
Greg:Yeah. I used to drive 1, so Yeah.
Quentin Willson:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what a good car that is. 256 miles. Real World Ranger, gotta
Greg:get one
Quentin Willson:of those. And driving, you know, not not not ultra carefully. And and all the taxi boys in London use them and, you know, you're sitting in one and then you look at the odometer and it's got 300,000 miles on it, you know. So that's a really really good car. And then, you know, the the Hyundai Kona, which is the the similar car to that.
Quentin Willson:Same thing, well made, good battery, long range, usable, won't cost you a lot of money, 10 to $12. BMW I3. Try and get the range extender because the the the normal one is called the RX I 3. The the normal one is about a 100 miles, 110 miles range. But if you've got the little petrol engine, it it it it makes a big difference.
Quentin Willson:And that, there again, you know, 9 grand, 10 grand. Renault Zowis, the later later Zowis with the the the bigger batteries. They'll do 200
Greg:They are. They're amazing little things.
Quentin Willson:Under 92 100 miles, and you can buy those for less than £10,000 with tiny mileages, relatively speaking. And then you get on to test the model s's, you could buy one for £10,000 now. It'll have done a few miles. It could be an early car. And I would always recommend don't get the 85 because the batteries weren't great.
Quentin Willson:Go for the 90 or the 75. But we see them all the time with these epic, epic mileages that have been worked as taxis, 450,000 miles. There was one in Australia that Robert tested that had done 660,000 kilometers, which is I think 450,000 miles. Wow. Original battery.
Quentin Willson:You know? And that's a big old Yeah. Piece that is. It's a lovely old car, big comfortable thing. And, I mean, I've driven them with miles on them as I've said, and they're they're they're lovely.
Quentin Willson:And then the model 3, you know, I've had a model 3 for 4 years, 45,000 miles, and it's cost me nothing. Tires at 45,000, just one set. And so, you know, about £750 is my maintenance for 4 years 45,000 miles. You can only dream of that, can't you? Yeah.
Quentin Willson:And and those, as I said, around sort of 15.15 grand, 16 grand. And there are loads of others, you know, Corsas, e Corsas. It's not the best EV in the world, but, you know, you you you can get them almost half price now.
Greg:Yeah. And and the the amazing thing about EVs is that even if the car is 5 years old, 7 years old, 10 years old, it's still gonna be peppy, you know, nice little car whereas ice engines, they degrade over time. Unless you actually take it apart, put it back together with all the new bits and bolts, you know, which is gonna cost you quite a quite a pretty penny to do that. So, yeah, I I think recommendation of secondhand EVs these days is is a is a no brainer. Go on to
Quentin Willson:go on to Autotrader and and just put in electric cars and you'll see all the ones. And the the the you can get them for even less. I mean, the the Nissan LEAF, the 24 kilowatt Nissan LEAF, that'll do about 70 miles to one charge. They're okay, but, you know, I would always say, look, get something with a with a decent range. I used to have a little Citroen C 0, which did 50 miles to 1 charge.
Quentin Willson:And you see them around in there sort of 2 grand, 2 and a half grand. And they'd be fine for a town car. In fact, the original car I had, what was it, 6 years, 7 years ago, is still out there. I saw it up for sale the other day. It's still still working obviously and still still doing do doing the mileage.
Quentin Willson:So, you know, that that that they are really really cheap now. But if you want it to be a practical thing, get something that'll do between a 152 100 miles. And they're out there for for less than $10. It's as simple as that. And why wouldn't you?
Greg:I agree. Thank you very much, Quentin.
Quentin Willson:Absolutely. Otherwise,
Greg:I hope to, to have you on.
Quentin Willson:In the future. Let's do it in another couple of years or whatever. But you keep up the good work too because we're all part of this this great community that is spreading this message of hope, of optimism, of of of innovation, of of imagination, of creativity and engineering. And look, this is good. Thank you.
